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RIP Mary

I love how you guys just went right into shark facts towards the end.

My younger brother and cousins are into new metal and I see my cousins gf wearing trip pants alot. I didn't think I was that much older than them but yeah there is a y2k nostalgia. And I have had men bark at me which is really demeaning, even more so than just having ppl laugh at me. I was at a Walmart once and this group of teen boys called me emo😭. I know shouldn't have but i told them to fuck off. I was just so tired of being laughed at by everyone in my small town.

Oh no! I had no idea Mary had passed. She was such an amazing and sweet person. I was instantly hooked when Etra and Mary were guest on an episode and have found so much new music through them. My condolences. 🥀🖤

Dani and Tre are great; but this guest ignored major parts of history. Palestine was under Christian rule before third-generation Muslims took it over. They instituted the same kind of classism that he rails against in *The Pact of Umar.* Throughout the entire episode - he capitalized on Dani’s pacifism; at the end literally suggesting we’re “facist bootlickers” if we don’t agree about a third world country. I’ve been Goth most of my life but don’t deal with the community because of people like that.

*Apparently* Goth is a cult now.

❤❤❤

As I can say, I can say nothing.

I am an ancient punk. Spot on Sir. The efforts of your leighbor's, an intising vane of ore. What is it and what are we. I shall aid you in every effort.

Thank you for the video it was really good. I like how in the beginning you talk about familiar things brings you back to a certain time in your life. That is such a true statement I really enjoy when that happens. It makes me wish I can do it all over again.

Hey, first song was great. As older i get, as more i like psychobilly. Its pure fun 🎉. After over 25 years goth scene, i need more fun and less tragic and drama. So i stomp to real basic EBM ore have fun with psychobilly. Self goth history nostalgic i look back to Crüxshadows for example... but i havent listen for years. For nostalgic moments, i listen to real 80s music. Im a early 80s kid, so that are the songs of my childhood in radio and tv.

Huge Black Sabbath fan here. The first three albums are what I consider "proto goth." They set the stage for dark themes in music during the early 70s, a time when OG goth performers were being influenced themselves.

heeeeeere we go

No new episode for the month of August?

Coming back to this ep as a recent college grad. The balance between living as myself and having to tone down my look to secure a stable income is so real (and hard) Its a similar debate in our organizing group, how to we maintain our more hard leftist values and anti-capitalist beliefs while also feeding ourselves and paying the bills? Feels impossible. But anyway! Great episode, love Cadaver Kelly & her Goth Music Theory series.

Hi, If anyone is interested in hearing more on alternative news in regards to this topic here are a few of my go too’s The Grayzone Abby Martin Richard Medhurst Danny Haiphong Norman Finklestein Scott Ritter Revolutionary Blackout Network All here on RUclips In the words of Nelson Mandela “None of us are free until Palestine is free” Thank you again for such a constructive, informative and captivating show!

I love this! Makes me more proud and have even more respect for the Goth community. I’ve been totally consumed with daily news about Palestine since 10/7, I don’t want a world without them. Thank you again.

I always thought of goth as live and let live, in the strongest sense. When you consider how the dominant culture reacts to goth, it's very clear that goths know what they are getting into when they join this subculture. They are joining a culture that lives outside the dominant culture. It's a true expression of freedom that lives largely within the western world, and not just in the Anglosphere.

I will go ahead and add one additional comment regarding Israel and the Middle East since you were expecting some... I'm early 60s and have zero place in my life for religion including people laying claims to land because their god told them that it was theirs. This was a GREAT podcast, you all did a great job in covering this touchy subject.

I cannot be an empathetic person and ignore politics and how it negatively affects those whom I care about. Sadly, mine seems to be a road less traveled especially in the Goth communities on social media that I track. Enjoying this discussion. edit: I did want to add that some members of our family have Lebanese roots so the topic of the Middle East is always important to me.

Thank you for speaking on this. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸 I've always had the same view you've shared in the past, that goth by its nature is antiracist, anticapitalist, anti- imperialist, etc. If you're able to though, I'd also love to hear about the original topic idea of alternative scenes in North Africa and the Middle East and how Hani's Lebanese identity influences their goth identity; as an ethnic Egyptian, I have my own difficult to disentangle feelings on how my ethnic identity and gothness intersect and inform each other and hearing another MENA goth's perspective would be awesome! Even just heaing them speak on the cultural stuff they have in this episode is refreshing! P.S. I am living for the "sipping misery like it's a fine wine" similie!

Ahh can’t believe I’m just getting around to this. But I’m almost 25 so I’m gen Z I think. I remember looking up to millennial goths (90s-00s) bc they were my generations closest “elders”. I didn’t actually start interacting with older generations until I wasn’t a shy underaged kid lol bc to me, they were the adults. The parents, even. So what could a kid really say to them, you know? But a lot of people I hung around were millennials and still are bc I’m an older GenZ and a lot of younger millennials grew up in tandem with me. But I’ve never actually taken the time to sit and think about things generationally and not so much by era. It’s a lot more intricate since different generations of people were involved in the different eras and I never stopped to think about how that impacted the way they maneuvered through the subculture. So thanks for the episode. Can’t wait to finish!

Love your podcasts ❤. Well though, insightfull and intelligent ❤

I miss sega. My brother had one and it was so cool. Sonic!! I am the same with wrestling and the undertaker. It was an interesting episode. I hope to hear more.

This pod is an incredibly valuable part of this community, thank you for this episode. I’ll be listening in my all black keffiyeh! 🖤🇵🇸

OK om not a goth expert I'm sure boomers did not crate goth goth was crated in the early 80s after the fall of punk near the end of the 70s

I'm coming back to this post ages later. Sanctus Maniam passed away over a year ago and it warms my heart to know that they got to be interviewed. I hope their mom can listen to this when she's sad. I'm sure she did when this debuted but I think a lot of folks forgot about this conversation. Thank you for talking to them. I wish I'd remembered this at the funeral, it's nice to hear their voice again. Knowing this is here and that I didn't dream this up is actually really huge. The grief is still palpable, whatever their views were. Losing them was so sudden and a shock to everyone but their views live on. RIP, Misty. Thank you for being on this Earth even if briefly...

I'm definitely Millennial but I always enjoy hearing about older generations and newer ones, too 🖤🪦

I'm not interested in politics but I do enjoy dancing the night away and getting in touch with my inner Monster 💀🪦🖤🐺

Thanks for the insightful, well thought out & intelligent information in this episode. I really hope people that listen to this later appreciate it as well.

I'm pleased to see this topic covered as well. That title scared me. My father is from the region, though we are from a Turkic minority. Anyway he says the original peninsula/ Yemeni people are "Arabian" while the people who through various other routes are seen now as Arab come from other other histories.

There absolutely has been pushback against electronic music in Europe, Tubeway Army was panned in the beginning, and so were Kraftwerk after leaving the krautrock sound behind. Conservative critiques absolutely hated them. That dude sucks and has no idea what is he talking about. The cultural shift did not come 'seamlessly', a lot of old people that LIVED trough the begining of synthpop still categorize it as 'non-music' and claim that only rock is a valid musical direction.

Glad you're covering this topic. Love to see the goth community come together to fight colonialism, genocide and Zionism as a whole. Palestine deserves to be free. No ifs, buts and other excuses.

Coming back to this older ep, I def think the idea of goth as a social media “aesthetic” instead of a real subgroup of people with shared interest hasn’t changed much. There’s a hyperconsumerist angle that y’all touched on - this idea of needing to make yourself fit by buying things but not thinking about if it “sparks joy.” Theres a fashion educator named Rian Phin who talks a lot about understanding yourself before shopping. By knowing what makes you happy, the rest comes naturally. It was fun to see yall come to the same conclusion! As a babybat I’m always appreciative of the more sociological analyses. To me the overlap of Goth and Academia sparks a looooot of joy 😉🖤 (also I took that pottermore quiz years ago and got a naked mole rat as my patronus. Pretty brutal lol)

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Gen X did Goth culture best. Future generations got it mixed up with Metal and Emo. Metal was its own genre separate from Goth. 90’s Industrial brought in what was viewed as Metal Industrial, in Goth. But in the 90’s Industrial was a branch off Goth. I hate seeing the Goth Atheistic being bastardised. Each decade sees Goth become more mainstream the same as what happened to Punk. I think there’s a conundrum between what is considered Goth Rap and a gangster attitude connecting itself with Goth, because earlier Goths were beaten up by so called “Gangsters” just for being Goth or we’d be called “Freaks”, so it makes it harder to except it as part of the scene.

While I have found no connection to gothic cultural, there is most definitely a philosophy that surrounds it, however open ended it might be. While the aesthetics are quite pleasing, I've discovered that the acceptance of the darker sides of nature to be the crux of what goth is. At least that is what I've come to believe. I appreciate your thoughts on this matter.🦇

Gen Z seems to be doing better with kepeing the subculture alive than younger Millenials did in the late 2000s early 2010s

Hail satan hell For me

Hey, so .. I know this video is way old by now but I was wondering if that pdf library of papers you had still exists and if maybe you'd be willing to share it in a google drive or dropbox or something online? I've been starting to do some personal research into the goth subculture just for myself and it would be awesome to have some of that that's been curated by someone who already has a pretty good grasp of things.

I'm still really loving and excited by your content. Just some feedback, I'm not sure if it was just me, but I would of loved this as a visual youtube, as opposed to a podcast. Only because I had trouble making out the different guest voices, & therefore at times getting lost with generational experiences, until more obvious things were mentioned. I hope I've explained myself properly. Otherwise, as I mentioned, excellent content. Thanks for all you do.

In my area in nothwestern germany i see a tendence to an older subculture in discos ore festivals. Im somewhere in the "elder" middle of age of the people.... I think we are near the same year of birth, so you know what i mean. With the years i got much into oldschool ebm and other old stuff punk/postpunk for example and I enjoy that in music and style very much. I like the elder ones at subculture events, there are very nice people in that generations, buuuut: I like to see very young people too. Hey, the young goth, punks, metal heads, electro heads, freaks are oure future. We dont want to become a seniors dance tea subculture. Ergo: There are no better generations, just style and music you like more ore not.

Dance vibe is different with the young ones I feel. Happier and faster feeling. Part of me thinks because the world is much more accepting now in comparison to before. Although clearly much more work must be done. Perhaps as the mainstream culture gets more “tolerant” the alternative culture becomes more mainstream.

Recently I went to a pop-up club in Central California. It seemed like it was mostly GenZ. Although, I’m GenX, I’m guessing I look Millenial. Some of them approached me to talk. Anyway, it was a night I felt I had to do my elder goth duty if you will lol and get the dance floor going. Many of them seemed to not dance like any goth style of any era prior. Some were dancing like normals in a mainstream club/party atmosphere. Some were dancing in gothy ways with groups of friends. Some seemed to start after watching me dance alone in gothy ways. When I got there there were a few people dancing here and there but the main dance space I saw a little crowd grooving in place focused forward to the DJ on stage. I’ve been noticing of GenZ in California - mostly LA area. At clubs, shows and events, they orientate themselves to watch and record the DJ rather than live and dance in a 3d irl room. I have a hunch it’s because they look into there phones and devices so much rather than the space literally around them. Others seem to literally just stand in the middle or the edge of the dance floor. I talked to a GenZ friend of mine and she thinks there may be something to that, that it’s come up before. Usually when I go to a dance night, it’s mostly GenZ to younger GenX. Shows and some events will bring out more Boomers and older GenX too. In LA, from what I see young GenX is still getting out. I do a mix of going out with my millenial friends or go alone. For my safety attempts when I go alone, I don’t drink and i order a car to drop me at the door and call for a car while I’m Still inside. When I was young before Uber and Lyft, I would get a taxi if I could afford it or make sure to wear my steel-toes, metal box purse, plenty of spikes and make sure to get there at a peak time for arrivals to walk close enough to look like part of the heard.

I stopped by the podcast after I saw that you were going to touch on politics and wanted to hear the thoughts others had. Myself, speaking as an older member of the community, cannot stand idly by while people I care about are being harmed by repressive extremist Right Wing policies and hatred. Of course, I love and appreciate the commentary and insights you and your guests always bring here.

We know who the hotter goth is 😂

Hilarious that people are styled like how we grew up

Goth was at it's height in the 80s and OG Goths are Boomers I am not a Boomer Just don't write people out of their Cultures and act like My Generation invented them ? That said we did grow up with it and even your AVATAR IMITATES how WE GREW UP ?

Uh You literally Both imitate Other Generation's Cultures and Styles ? Is this a J O K E ?

Thank you for the video I always appreciate listening & keep up the good work.Who does Goth best I would say Gen X then Millennials Gen Z just mess it up 🤣🤣🤣